“As a pastor and a former Miss California, I am often asked to interpret what the Word of God has to say on a particular subject,” Rev. Lamarche says. “I am quite confident that God prefers that we human beings stick to speaking for ourselves. And yet there are occasions when God’s Word is used as a weapon, and I feel compelled to speak.
In the past few days, much has been made of the words of Miss California USA, Carrie Prejean. She stated that marriage is between a man and a woman. I write not in response to her opinion, but rather about her comments that followed: that the Bible condones her words. She said, “It’s not about being politically correct, it’s about being biblically correct.” While this sentiment is shared by many who seek to condemn gay people and gay marriage, citing pieces of the Bible to further one’s own prejudice fails to meet the Bible on its own terms.
Most people seeking to condemn gay people point to the Book of Leviticus, where we read that men lying with men is an abomination. However, we rarely hear of other verses found in the book of Leviticus that are equally challenging. For example, Leviticus also tells us that eating shrimp and lobster is an abomination. And that a person should not wear material woven of two kinds of material—an impossible mandate for a pageant contestant!
In Paul’s letter to the community in Corinth we read, ‘For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church….’ And yet these words have not prevented Christian denominations from ordaining women, such as myself. Sadly, the Bible has been used to further prejudice throughout history. We have used it to permit ourselves to enslave people; to conquer and kill; and to denigrate the earth.
The truth is that it is difficult to know for sure the intentions of the biblical authors, but we do know something about God. Those of us who know God through Jesus of Nazareth know that he went to great lengths to express God’s love to people who were labeled as outcasts. He spent time with children, prostitutes, and lepers, all of whom were labeled as outside of the grasp of the Holy. As we continue to seek God’s vision for us as a nation grounded in a love for justice, I pray that we might move closer to the cause of grace.”
The 2003 Miss California, Nicole Lamarche, on the reigning Miss California’s views on same-sex marriage.
I wish more people, ordained or otherwise,had such a level headed view.
i KNOW. there is nothing that makes me happier than hearing a religious person talk about the GOOD (and MAIN) points of the Bible. How easily people forget ALL of the teachings of Jesus, when it is not convenient to their argument. If religion practiced what it preached more, a lot people would be less judgmental of it.
-Lisa, survivor of Catholic high school….. ;)
no kidding! i have a good friend in divinity school and he loves it when ignorant people use the bible to try and spread hatred, cause he gets to rip them a new one by pointing out what the bible actually says. and i mean that in the most biblically correct way possible.
AMEN!!!!
RIGHT ON! wooooooooo!
What a lovely person, inside and out.
I couldn’t have said it better myself. :)
Finally! A religious person that isn’t a fucking hypocrite!
You took the words right out of my mouth!
That was FANTASTIC. Seriously, I got chills. That’s really weird… but there you have it.
Amazing! It’s about time. She is so extremely right.
I am so thoroughly impressed with her right now =)
That was absolutely brilliant! I wish more religious people could think with her level of reason and intelligence.
Forget about her words, I wanna see her naked!
Me too!
yay, an inspiration…!
If there were more church leaders like this I’d actually still attend.
That’s what I thought when I first read this!!!! :D
Wow. I’m impressed.
She’d be an athiest if it weren’t for her belief in God!
Im all okay/pro/smiles ON gay realtionships…. and I’m also all okay/pro/smiles with people expressing their opinions…. There…
Can we all just get along??? lol … I think we can all say whatever the crap we feel like saying, as long as we give the same respect to others.
But seriously… “One mind, One Universe”
Arrivederci!!!
katyta – i think the point is miss california was trying to (incorrectly)use the bible to make her point, instead of just saying how she personally felt. but i get what you’re saying, and i too disagree with her views but i think she has a right to say them, especially when asked.
whoop :) so agreed on the comment if if they’re were more pastors like this I would still attend church! I stopped going to church when I came out, because I couldn’t equate the discrimination I would face there with Christian values.
I also love the first sentence, coz it makes it sound like she’s regularly asked for her opinion on moral matters both as a pastor AND as a former Miss California :)
I am so, so glad, that she spoke up. It’s people like this that prove that Christianity, when followed by someone interested in its true intentions, prove that it is a valid and good thing. Her open mindedness and lack of hypocritical discrimination against people who are different is inspiring.
I say this because, I am a Christian, though my opinions are much like this lovely woman’s. And though I still call myself a Christian, I stopped attending Church due to sickening hypocrisies that are so vividly displayed.
A real Christian would be following Christ’s teachings, not holding on fervently to the strict rules of Levitican law. Levitican law was created to govern the Jews, thousands of years ago. Christs teachings were for the Christians. And Christ taught, by word and example, that all human beings deserve love and respect, that tolerance and open minds, as well as open hearts, are the way to live.
The act of Christ’s death was meant to usher in an Age of Grace. And an Age of Grace, for those following Christ’s teachings, means the strict rules of the Old Testiment were no longer something that needed being adhered to.
It’s been argued with me that, by saying this, I am saying the Ten Commandments are also invalid. I say that is not the case. The Ten Commandments are merely a healthy guideline for human beings to follow to help their fellow people have a happier life. I mean think, “thou shalt not steal” that is to keep you and your neighbors from having your things pilfered, a good thing, no? The list goes on, but I won’t, as this comment is already a tl;dr.
To sum up before this becomes the longest post I’ve ever written, I state my opinions to those in my life in this manner: If you wish to call someone’s behavior a sin, that’s fine, but don’t judge that person based on their choices. Because odds are you’re committing the greater sin by judging, when we’re all human and make mistakes on a daily basis. To shun someone, based on their choices, is also wrong, a true Christian would be working to befriend as many people as possible and shine a little light, to prove that there are good people in this world.
As per Perez Hilton’s take on the whole thing, someone needs to kindly remind him that tolerance, includes being tolerant of the intolerant. Accept that Miss California 09 has her views and you have yours, if they differ, that is merely the beauty of free will.
Alright I’ll shut up now. <3
amen lady!
can we just make this chick Miss Caliofornia? do-over? Can’t we recall our new one? I mean, it worked for our governor and all..
She ALREADY WAS Miss California. You’re welcome.
oh my bad. I meant to write ‘make this chick Miss California again?’ sorry
God and I misspelled California too. Need to lay off the 3 am posts.
Amazing. I just blogged today about my struggle with being a new Christian because of the hypocrisy and egocentric nature of the Church.
http://erinadequateme.blogspot.com/2009/04/big-question.html
I love the explanation of Jesus Christ changing the Old Testament necessity of rituals with his death. I was reading about that in Galations today while researching my questions. There are so many things in the bible that, if taken literally, would make our world absolutely insane. I think the bottom line is that it comes down to interpretation. Everyone interprets it differently. I have come to the conclusion that I don’t think that ANY one religion is right.
But I do know this; marriage is an equal rights issue. If we listened to many conservatives there would still be segregation in marriage. It’s been said a million times before, but there is no question in my mind that no one religion should dictate its beliefs into law across the board.
What does religion have to do with assfucking? it is just unnatural and should be prosecuted. It is as sick as bestiality or incest. such people should be sectioned and treated. america is trully one sick country, no morals and full on degradation spiral. you would go down just like greece and rome. hopefully you all eventually become knobkockeys and extinguish through depopulation.
Very well put indeed. I have many friends who are quite religious, one who is actually studying to become ordained, and though some have different views than me on this subject they all try their best to love and accept everyone. Personally, I am not religious anymore, but I appreciate when people like her speak up and remind me to continue doing my best to love accept and not judge anyone.
oops not meant to be a reply to the person above me!
As I have pointedout in an earlier post, we can tell when the same email is used by the Avie.
I know for a fact that each individual email is assigned a unique avie.
Up above you have commented several times ina row as different people that you are in support of gays, liked the preacher, and wished more religious people would behave as this one has.
Its plain as day.
Now you are over here saying this bull shit?
Whats your fucking purpose?
Why dont you stop talking to your self and stop causing drama up on the fucking internet you freak of nature.
To the rest of you you can easily check my facts.
Use your regular email address to make a simple, nonagressive comment.
Now make the same comment using another email account.
Dont get sucked into a debate about anything worht while around here.
Obviously this site is looking for hits and not a community like you find in other places.
See different name here, same damn avie, same email.
Ignore the hate people. Ignore that sad pathetic oxygen theif.
Can you please shut up with these posts? It doesn’t take a fucking genius to figure out that an avatar is assigned to a single e-mail.
You are forgetting the fact that when you don’t enter an e-mail (which I used to do all the time) it assigns a random avatar, and it’s entirely possible that it would choose the same random ones for two different people….who AREN’T entering an e-mail.
Just because two names have the same avatar does not mean they are the same e-mail address and are the same person! Please take the genius epiphanies elsewhere.
Look, I didn’t enter my e-mail and got the same avatar as outsider, up there. And we aren’t the same person.
Not to continue the debate, but I think it uses the same avatar based on your I.P. address which Beet captures and probably sells to all the penis enlargement spam sites that continue to bombard Donkey Punch on a daily basis. The email address you enter has nothing to do with the avatar, so don’t even bother entering one.
hey you guys, if you don’t put in your name/email it will give you the purple anonymous face. Just fyi. All purple anonymous faces aren’t the same person.
see? The anonymous one right above me @ 7:45 was me. Ok, enough of this discussion.
and if I put a different email address, it changes again.
its medieval ignorant bigots like you that slow our progression to an intelligent society. get it threw your head, what happens between 2 consenting adults behind closed doors is none of your business. who are you to tell them what they can and can’t do? does anyone try to tell you how you can and can not have sex with your spouse or bf/gf? no they don’t because no one should have the authority to do that. if you are not into the butt love then don’t do it, but don’t try to control what other people want to do. They leave your trashy ass alone don’t they?
I like buttfucking. You would too if you tried it.
AWESOME. LOL
what the fuck are knobkockeys?
Yes Jesus spent alot of time with people that were living less than stellar lives. He ate dinner with corrupt tax collectors, talked with prostitutes and touched lepers. He spent time with them not to tell them their lives were ok the way they were, but to give them the stength to change their lives, and to become like Him. Jesus was sent to the masses of sinners to help them change and live the way God wanted. God basically blew up Sodom and Gemorah because He knew they were perverse. In what way? Well where does the word sodomy come from? I believe there is nothing a gay or lesbian can do that will harm me personally. Martin Luthor King fought hard for equality on a human level, but changing the entire fabric of the family is not an equal right. Gays and Lesbians have the same human rights as me, but that does not give them the right to make me bow down to their way of thinking. Why should we change marriage laws? They were meant from the dawn of time to mean a man and woman. Why is society so eager to see this fundamental change? Makes me wonder where we’re headed.
But why do I have to “bow down” to your point of view? I don’t have the same religious faith as you, and I can be married without the acceptance of your God in a non-denominational courthouse if I wanted to. I am not gay, but I see this as a fundamental human rights equality issue not a religious issue. People are not asking to be wed in your church, just to be able to marry and get the same rights as a heterosexual couple that can marry. Separate is not equal.
you don’t have to bow down to my point of view. I know for a fact that the gay and lesbian community is trying to make many churches marry them even though it against their beliefs. My own sister is married to a woman, and I have trouble with the whole thing, but I love her with all my heart. All I’m saying is that leaving gay marriage legal is opening a can of worms that may be biting us well into the future. Why mess with an institution that has remained the same for thousands of years. It is sacred and shouldn’t be changes.
I am interested to know what “can of worms” you think will be opened exactly. That consenting adults who love each other would be able to be married? That would truly be tragic…
Asking their faith to embrace their union is completely different from trying to force anything on anyone.
Slavery was around for several thousand years, why did we change that?
you’ve been swallowing propoganda. there are many churches who will gladly marry gay people. not to mention court services.
does it make even a tiny bit of sense for ANY couple to want to get married in a church that believes they are evil? um, I don’t think so.
“I know for a fact that the gay and lesbian community is trying to make many churches marry them even though it against their beliefs.”
Um how is that even possible? Are they showing up with guns and forcing them to perform a marriage?
BULLSHIT
Marriage also was a business deal from the “dawn of time.” It was not about religion. “We’ll give you some goats if you take our daughter off our hands.” We went ahead and screwed that up making it all about love and partnership and God. Our societal constructs have been changing for years to reflect what makes sense in the now. That’s why the last Pope was so controversial. He understood that while he was taught that birth control was wrong, those rules were written before STDs like AIDS became an epidemic. He acknowledged this and apporoved the use of condoms for prevention. Many disagreed with throwing tradition out the window but views sometimes need to adjust to reflect the climate around us. That’s just smart.
My 18 year marriage is cetainly not based on a symbiotic relationship. I don’t use him for money any more than he uses me for cleaning the house. There are billions of fools out there like me who think a happy marriage can’t survive without love. And if marriage is the business deal you’re talking about, why do the gays want it so badly. Could it be for the tax write offs and health benefits? I think throwing the tradition of abstinence as a way to prevent sickness out the window was wrong, but in this day of people doing only what they want without a thought for morals, what was the Pope to do? Changing to suit the climate is sad, because it means that what has held together so long no longer means anything. Marriage is something to be laughed at , and sexual purity is mocked. I guess that’s the way the world is, but I don’t have to be happy about it.
Um Hello that person said marriage was based and rooted in history since the dawn of time as a business deal, and while certain marriages between old diggers and their money bags are still infact a form of business deal, the poster did not claim that ALL modern marriages are AS THE UNION CHANGED over time once Chruches adopted the ceremony.
The point being that ideas are always changing and evolving, as are institutions and their purposes.
And you want to tal about sexual purity?
Your husband never smacked your ass and called you sally while he was given to your doggy style and pulling your hair?l
You never gave him your ass cherry after your cha cha was loosey goosey after child birth?
Cause I know Ive been married and we get fucking freaky and there isnt one damn thing pure about what i do with that man, nor should it be if youre doing it right.
I doubt I will go to hell for that so STFU
I meant purity before marriage, but as for the rest of your post, I think I will not touch it with a ten foot pole.
I think it is funny when you argue with yourself. You must have a ton of free time!
roses are red
violets are blue
I have multiple personalities
and so do I
Marriage laws do not come from the ‘dawn of time,’ in fact marriage is really a cultural construct with radically different definitions across cultures worldwide. In the west marriage comes form a desire to officially recognize two people are in a relationship and make them into a family unit with the ability to see each other in hospital in case of emergency, receive tax breaks etc. Isn’t that a right any person in a loving relationship should have? Anyone who has decided to commit their lives to someone else should have the right to be a family in the eyes of the state.
Religious marriages are a separate issue, many churches and synagogues and mosques out there perform gay marriages, some chose not to and that is their prerogative (though I personally find them bigoted). But when it comes to state marriage everyone has the right to be recognized for their commitment and attain the same benefits.
lol @ “meant from the dawn of time”
really? no idea that cave people had marriages. idiot.
umm.. they probably did.
thanks for posting that beet. it is appriciated.
I fully agree that shrimp and lobster are abominations. :D
no, EATING them is an abomination. poor creatures :(
It was a privledge to read this. Thanks for posting something of such insight.
LOLing @ the incongruity of above comment being posted by someone named “Fartface McMuffin”
It’s a nickname. I have no idea where it came from.
*toot*
Excuse me!
Yes. Yes. Yes! Nothing but Yes, Ms. Lamarche.
I personally believe Prejean was misinformed in her interpretation of scripture, but I still vehemently disagree with anyone who’d make her out to be a hateful bigot.
And Perez Hilton is still an asshole.
Yeah God says This is law and then we want to do it differently so we rebel and GOD chuckles and says ‘Oh, never mind?’
This pastor needs to find the new testament where it links to old, and study laws.. that is the priestly and church laws which were elimated, some food restrictions are gone as HE was teaching them obedience as they were recently freed from slavery and had a crass and cruel upbringing.. He was so kind gave them order,govenment, and desired respect and obedience of those who were unruly and evil to protect the innocent and helpless among them, raising a new man from the old, but man’s obedience to obey once he knows better, even if you suffer a blow, is always correct.. and yes, you shouldn’t mess with God’s word.. in your own sentiments.. Thou shall not take the Lord’s name in vain.. to push your interpretation to be politically correct or for gain. We should all get along, not fight and battle over rules and regulations of the times we live in .. Read Romans; especially chapter 8.. but the wiser and faithful to the laws they know are fact; must OBEY and restrain yourself from sinning to please God and quote why, if possible, should you be questioned. YOU don’t get in Heaven unpunished if you break your word, you answer for it or repent and take the shame and get back on the straight and narrow path. She was tested, [why she was in a beauty pagent is a challenge to me?] however, she stood up faithful and obedient and some dumb ass celebtard showed his true bias and radical colors., even shaming innocent gays in the process of his anger and gauche manner. Poor Perez, you baited her for your pleasure and gain. You think you made God happy that day?
I’m totally not religious but that kicked some serious ass. She’s a smart one.
Made of Win!
I don’t think anyone has pointed out that the bible is merely a book of stories stolen from previously established religions. all bases for religion are rooted in stories created to validate a certain society’s ideals. nothing more, nothing less.
for an evolved society to base it’s laws upon such is truly shameful and near-sighted.
I’ve noticed that when people don’t agree with gay marriage, their only reason is because “the bible says….” When asked for another reason why, they have nothing else so then they say, “It’s… just not right. It’s disgusting.”
Right on Sasha.
Woo woo! I wish this lady was my pastor!
what i think is so funny and not in a ha ha way is how people totally disregard that we all have FREE WILL.
for all that’s said and done, you don’t see anyone getting struck by lightning do you?
…except those two or three people a year who get struck by lightning?…
THIS
Haven’t you read that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female?
Yeah, so that they can procreate. Some things just make sense.
Don’t be so foolish as to summarize human relationships on the basis of procreation. If we want to base our existence off of procreation, then we should do away with monogomy, birth control, and any notion we may have of ‘love’.
In reality, two individuals will not hold a relationship on the desire to procreate. In reality, were are not merely animals churning out litters. We have emotions, attachments, and we fall in love.
Yes! It’s great to hear an American Christian speaking out for the true heart of Christianity. Jesus said that the fulfilment of the law is love, nothing more and nothing less. Everything else is out-of-date pharisaic rule-mongering. The purpose of the New Covenant in Jesus is to fulfil those laws through grace.
Anyone can use a selective canon to prove a point based in their own human prejudice, but taking the whole Bible means recognising the message of the whole. Good for Rev Lamarche!
Hey Beet. Why don’t you bash the president you love so dearly? His exact quote…..
“I’m a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.”
I find it really disturbing that people who have different ideas than the politically correct ones, are harrassed. The reason the Bible mentions lobster, crab & pig as food not to be eaten is because they are scavengers. Pigs have no sweat glands & they eat the waste left over from everything-there is no place for the poisin they consume to go ,so when you eat pig meat, you are consuming poison. Lobster & shrimp also retain a lot of the garbage they eat hence you are putting that into your body. These things were given to us to help us keep our bodies healthy, it doesnt’ send a person to hell, they are health laws.
The scripture regarding women speaking in church actually referred to all people chattering in church, it was translated incorrectly. Is there anyone out there who would want pople chattering while they were speaking publicly? I doubt it.
It is easy for people to condem the Bible when they do not understand it. Many of the translations are incorrect and it is very easy to find out what was really said. Jesus sais he did not come to change ONE WORD of the law.
It is people that make the Bible sound bad and a lack of understanding. Why are so many people against God? Read the Bible and you will see why right there in black & white. I truly wish that Christian would be as adamant as every other gruop of people with strong beliefs but I suppose we do not need to protest everything when we have Gods love and HIS word. I never thought I would see the day that a message of LOVE & FORGIVENESS would be hatefully criticized and Gay marriages condoned. I guess we don’t need nature anymore and people care more about the rights of animals than they do children. Nice world.I’m so glad I have GOD to go to when this place just doesn’t make sense. I sure hope that people who want to have sex with animals don’t try to legalize human/animal marriages. This probally won’t get posted but it felt good to air my opinion. TRUTH
BWAhahahahahahahahaha
*gasp
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
riiiiight. it’s always been the ATHEISTS who have condemned the RELIGIOUS people.
hahahahahahahaha
and p.s. to pretty much everyone who feels “liberals” are the intolerant ones trying to crush the voices of the religious right: freedom of speech doesn’t protect someone from mockery.