Wait, who won the Miss USA pageant on Sunday night? Oh, right, nobody cares. It was Miss North Carolina, but any attention she may have had as a result of winning has been eclipsed by this Miss California scandal. (BTW, “Miss California” is a great song by Jack’s Mannequin, but that’s the only context in which I support it these days.)
Carrie “Haterade” Prejean was on the Today Show today, digging her hole even deeper. She admits that her answer cost her the crown (as well it should!) but she stands by her hateful answer, and claims that she had “spoken from my heart, for my beliefs and for my God.” She adds that “it’s not about being politically correct; for me, it’s about being biblically correct.”
Miz Prejean, you and I have very different Gods. I hope that one day you can find a faith in something a little less spiteful.
How is her answer hateful? All she did was express her religious beliefs. So being a religious person automatically makes you a hateful person? Exaggerate much? Wow Beet, I think you and Perez have a couple billion people who are owed an apology.
ps: what happened to free speech?
Jennifer, way to contradict yourself darlin’! How can you make a call for freedom of speech after shaming EB for doing just that – using her right to freedom of speech? Use your head before you just start typing Jennifer.
I didn’t shame for for her freedom of speech, I “shamed” her for the TONE of it. Beet feels passionately about the gay marriage issue and I respect that but I dislike the way she calls anyone who doesn’t agree a “hateful”. There is no need to slam someone’s character for disagreeing. Respect other views is all….
Try working on your reading comprehension.
Tell me Jennifer, what is “a hateful”? How’s that for reading comprehension, bitch?
shut up you damn dirty redneck!
haha pushy
you’re missing the whole point jennifer!! it’s ok to be religious, it’s not ok to treat people badly and cloak that under “being religious.”
I totally agree with you Jennifer. The girl wasn’t being hateful. To state your beliefs does not make you a hater. I thought she was totally respectful to people who believe that way. It is not as Mercedes puts it, “treat people bad and cloak it under being religious”. Who did she treat bad. To say you don’t believe in gay marriage isn’t treating someone bad. If you actually treat a gay person badly that isn’t okay, but to state your beliefs what the hell is wrong with that. You guys don’t get it! And I am sorry to say this. God loves all of his children, but he doesn’t think hey, any behavior is okay with me. You can love the sinner, but hate their sin.
It IS treating someone badly. Telling someone they can’t have something because they’re different is exactly what hurtful discrimination is. I don’t have a problem with Arabs, I just don’t want them to have the same employment opportunities as me; I don’t have a problem with Blacks, I just don’t think they should be allowed to sit in the same part of the bus as me; I don’t have a problem with gays, I just don’t want them to have the same legal rights as I do. It is the mentality of “I am ‘normal,’ I am the “right type of person” and I should have things that other people can’t b/c they’re “weird” and not normal like me.”
She was just saying what she thought. give her a break. She’s not saying that there is anything wrong with other people, just that she doesn’t believe that they should haven the same rights. I personally support same-sex marriage, but I don’t think hating this woman will help my cause at all. Hate only gives birth to more hate and what we need more is love. I think that what people are overlooking is that Perez asked a totally loaded question. The other girls didn’t get asked questions in which their personal opinions caused them to lose, so this entire problem could have been solved by pre-screened questions.
“She was just saying what she thought.”
Excuse me? White southern plantation owners said that black people should be whipped property because that’s what THEY thought too!!
Mercedes, you’ve absolutely nailed it. That is exactly why it’s hateful.
Jennifer, freedom of speech has nothing to do with what we as citizens say to one another. It has to do with the GOVERNMENT censoring what any citizen has to say.
Miss Cali is perfectly within her rights to express her objection to gay marriage. Beet is perfectky within her rights to express her objection to what the idiot, Miss California, said.
So there should be a litmus test as to who wins beauty pageants? Only leftists or those who mouth leftist platitudes to satisfy preening foul mouth dolts like Perez Hilton? (What an interview with Norah O’Donnell on MSNBC by the way! What class!)
Once again, “tolerant” liberals show how intolerant they are of anything that falls outside their narrow set of beliefs.
Agreed!
Wasn’t that a “beauty” pageant anyway? Who cares what they believe?! Let’s just put them in swimsuits and tape their mouths.
Unfortunately, contestants are still required to open their mouths at some point during the 2 hrs, and unless that changes, they will have to learn to speak intelligently and respectfully to all watching if they want to win.
“Once again, “tolerant” liberals show how intolerant they are of anything that falls outside their narrow set of beliefs.”
Agreed. And I’m a “liberal”.
I’m very much in the liberal category (I even live in Washington state!) yet I too find it BS that she’s getting blasted over this. Why should her own personal beliefs on gay marriage effect her chances of winning a beauty pageant? It’s not like she’s campaigning against gay rights, she’s just stating her opinion which was what was asked of her in the first place! Would she be any more of a winner if she had lied about it?
I’m a liberal athiest and I fully support gay rights, but a person’s religion, beliefs, opinions, etc… is there thing. If you ask a personal question with only one right answer, expect fireworks.
You are so clueless. Go back a few posts and read what other people already said. They originally put her down b/c she was not able to present her ideas well, NOT her stance on issues. It’s just turned into a gay v anti-gay debate b/c well, that’s what always happens on the EB, but the real issue was her inability to give an answer that would show her as intelligent, opinionated, warm, and qualified to wear the Miss USA crown.
If you really think that’s why she was referred to as hateful, then you’re seriously delusional. No one was thinking “Oh, shit, we need to dislike her because she can’t speak clearly on national television”. Since when has that been an issue?
Like I already said, comments about being “hateful” came later (in this gay debate post), ORIGINALLY most of the people (commenters, not EB) WERE talking about how she failed at presenting her ideas well. A lot of people weren’t looking for the “1 right answer” like you said, and most people weren’t looking for her to lie (like YOU said). They were looking for her to show the necessary characteristic of a Miss USA- to stay true to her beliefs while being respectful and giving a clear eloquent answer.
just an aside: i’m a liberal atheist, and i lost a Miss America pageant based on a final question about the death penalty. i am against the death penalty in all situations, and spoke eloquently about it. i had the highest score up until that point, which was the final round. i’m just saying it works both ways.
This is a free country with free speech. Even if we do not agree with her opinion she has a right to express it. I admire her for having the guts to say what she really felt.
I concur!
NOTE TO Eli Rules: Right wing Republicamns can be every bit as intolerant as liberals. For example: Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Newt Gingrich, Glen Beck and O’Reilly.
Without getting too far off track, I take issue with your specific assertions as to the people you mentioned. Having right-wing views does not make one intolerant any more than someone holding left wing views is per se intolerant. The difference is that conservatives recognize that people have different opinions, no matter how vehemently they may disagree with them. But a hallmark of contemporary liberalism is an unhealthy urge to censor and heap invective on those with whom they disagree. Witness, as I mentioned above, Perez Hilton’s comments on his MSNBC interview. Carrie Prejean has different views than him on gay marriage. To Hilton, this makes her a “b**ch” and “c**t.” In addition, if you Twitter, put in a search for “Miss California” and witness some of the tweets from liberals. It’s not pretty, and honestly pretty sick.
Eli – some of the people he mentioned are wildly intolerant and have not made any claims to be otherwise. Ann Coulter openly uses the term “faggot” when talking about homosexuals. If that isn’t a sign of intolerance, I don’t know what is. Wouldn’t you find offense if she used the n-word in describing an African-American? It is the same thing – and yet you take offense to her being listed as an intolerant conservative?
Of course I disagree strongly with people being called names like those you describe (although I’ve never heard Ann Coulter use that term) but that is not we are talking about here. I’m talking specifically about Perez Hilton and his apparent belief that those who disagree with his opinion on gay marriage are “b***es” and “c***ts” precisely because their opinions are different. It is the Thought Police run amok.
..so basically what we have agreed here is that people from both sides have a tendency to be intolerant. right?
I’d still rather be on the side that stands for equality for all, instead of basing their opinions on ignorance, prejudice, fear while using religion as an excuse. Because please don’t try to tell me Jesus would have been holding a yes on prop 8 sign?? From what I read in sunday school he wouldn’t.
Ann Coulter has indeed used that word.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/04/coulter.edwards/index.html
NOT INTOLERANT??? ARE U EFFIN KIDDING ME??? ANN COULTER SAID JEWISH PEOPLE NEED TO BE “FIXED.”
?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
“The difference is that conservatives recognize that people have different opinions, no matter how vehemently they may disagree with them.”
Something tells me you just might consider yourself a conservative.
Please, it’s the conservative right that are constantly trying to legislate morality and force their values on everyone else.
That’s the problem with the gay marriage debate. If you don’t believe in gay marriage, fine, don’t marry someone who is gay. But don’t try to force other people to live by your values. You marry who you want, and let me marry who I want.
As for Miss California, I’m not certain where she stands on that point. Her answer to the question implied that she wants to force her beliefs on others by not allowing same-sex marriage. She has a right to express that, and I have a right to express how I feel about the issue and her comments.
I don’t think the issue is that Republicans and Conservatives are as intolerant as liberals. Obviously they are. The issue is that Liberals (and I don’t define myself as either Liberal or Conservative) don’t seem to think that the hatred and bias they spew against anyone who disagrees with their opinion is intolerance ! When it COMPLETELY is. Carrie’s answer wasn’t hateful – socially constructed? a little ignorant? yes, possibly, but just because she doesn’t believe in the idea of homosexual marriage doesn’t make her a “hater”. But for turning this girl into some sort of scumbag and treating her like a moron, HATING is exactly what Beet and so many other people do. And wasn’t that the problem to begin with? Isn’t judging others what got us into this whole mess in the first place?
are you fucking retarded? Liberals are not trying to make people get gay married against their will; if you don’t like gay marriage, don’t get gay married.Conservatives are the ones trying stop consenting adults from get married to the person they love on their own accord.
No, YOU are “fucking retarded” for having the reading comprehension of a 12 yr old and misunderstanding my comment, and being part of the reason why I refuse to be associated with Liberals even though, given my views, I technically am one. All I’m saying is that there’s Liberals who think they’re all high and mighty and uber-tolerant and then shit all over their opponent (or in your case, shit all over someone who’s on the same side just for defending the other) and spread the same hatred and hyprocrisy they claim to oppose.
Wow, look at you demonstrating your “independent” tolerance. Totes turning the other cheek, Carrie Prejeans version of jesus would be proud.
@ Anonymous, again, you demonstrate your inability to correctly read and comprehend what I’ve written. I use “fucking retarded” in quotations to point out the extremity of such a phrase being used to address or talk about anyone. However, I don’t HATE you for your ignorance, I am quite tolerant and non judgemental of what I am assuming to be your 10th grade level of education.
Ms. Prejean needs to (re)read the Bible. I think she missed the major points of its teachings …
I love you Sasha!
I hate that I’m referencing Perez here, but I really like Shanna’s argument here: http://perezhilton.com/2009-04-21-pageant-officials-continue-to-distance-themselves-from-miss-california
Although I hate to say I read that off of his website as well, I agree. I think of anybody actually involved in the conflict she has given the best opinion on the matter.
look if gay people want to marry fine.
BUT
there was an election YOU LOST THE ELECTION quit blaming everyone else and start blaming yourselves for not getting enough voters out.
or maybe just maybe the majority of people in calif. that cared enough to vote did not want gay marriage.
it’s her opinion get over it
p.s
Perez likes guys so why is he/she judging a pageant to find miss usa
maybe he could judge mr. usa but not miss
That sounded incredibly ignorant.
Perez is a fine judge for a beauty pageant. There were also straight women that sat as judges can they not judge women?
Just because you don’t think someone is sexually attractive does not mean you can’t give your opinion if they are attractive in different respects.
Think about it.
I give her credit for saying what she thinks, even if she got booed because of that. But I think God’s more important law is that love is the most important feeling in this world. No matter if you are white, black, skinny, fat, gay or lesbian, we all deserve to love and be loved. I think when you’re in love, there’s nothing right but there’s nothing wrong. Love is ALWAYS beautiful, no matter where it comes from. I don’t think God would agree with telling someone that just because they love someone of their same sex it’s wrong. Love is NEVER wrong. When you’re in love, you make this world a better place, and it doesn’t matter if you’re in love with someone of the same sex or someone of the opposite sex. Love is way better than hate.
And honestly, I think that if she said that she didn’t deserve to be Miss USA. Because Miss Usa not only represents the girl who won. She is representing a whole country. I just thought she doesn’t deserve to be Miss Usa. It’s not wrong to say your own opinion, but sadly, if that’s your opinion, you’re not going to be able to represent your country. It’s not about God, the bible or law. It’s about being fair to everyone. We can’t deny to anyone the right to love.
Pd. Don’t forger the ‘Remember Me’ option :D. Please! Please! Please! I will annoy you ’till you get it, haha :). xo
But we do….how many states allow gay marriage? Hint: shes with the MAJORITY of the united states.
31 states have put gay marriage up to a vote of their citizens. 31 states have banned it. 31 states full of “b***es” and “c***s,” according to Perez Hilton?
Yeah, probably. Hint: the majority of Germans were with the Nazis, so I guess that was ok too?
You know the Bible is not all about touchy feely love. It’s about obeying guidlines set out for us. If you don’t like it, that’s ok, but for those of us out there who believe that the Bible means what it says, we need to stand up for it. We are not teaching hate by standing up for our values, and if anyone is hating it’s Perez calling her a b*****h. My freedom means that if I’m Christian I can follow Christ, if you’re not, that’s ok too, just don’t tar and feather me for sticking to my beliefs.
Bingo. I’m not a religious person but that doesn’t mean I like religious people getting dumped on for their beliefs. I think they knew she was religious and set her up. It’s great publicity for the pageant.
thanks!
wow. Hateful answer? She said her own opinion.
hateful? can she not have her beliefs?
I swear, this fucking political correctness is the new censorship.
If there was a better country to move to, I certainly would cause this one is going in the crapper fast
gays are now the biggest bigots EVER
I am going to have to disagree with you tiger…I think some of the biggest bigots around are people who refer to the gay community as “gays.”
I just noticed that you just proved tiger’s point by calling him/her a bigot for using the wrong terminology for the “gay community”.
Just saying.
don’t you mean the bigoted community? my god…SHUT. UP.
and i agree with you on the censorship bit, tiger. it’s ridiculous how little on can say without being found guilty of a hate crime.
1st problem is that Mensa doesn’t exist in her country, let alone her world…so getting slammed with an untraditional question like that from that bitchass loser Perez Hilton is just not fair… did anyone get a “right to life” question or maybe “Madonna adopting the entire 3rd world” question???
Yeah, her views are fucked; but at least she has one; which is more than probably 47 of the other beauty geniuses on that stage… And please explain, why is the Miss America so popular with the gay population, I don’t get that… someone, anyone, … Bueller???
She in no way was hateful, or close-minded. Not everyone has to believe in the same things. I think she went about this in an incredibly classy way. Very sophisticated. Props to her for not just saying what she knew they wanted her to say.
Majority does not equate to being correct to all of those hiding behind a a vote in California that was very close to passing AND WAS WORDED IN A WAY TO CONFUSE ON PURPOSE.
why dont you people against EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL HUMANS take a little lookie poo at what rights they want.
THEY DONT WANT A CHURCH WEDDING DUMB BITCHES SO LEAVE THE CHURCH OUT OF THIS SHIT! They want EQUAL RIGHTS like being able to take care of a loved one who can not communicate on their death bed and not loosing their homes with this god damn death tax you get slapped with when a person other than you wife or husband passes away an leaves you something from their estate.
CHURCH AND STATE MUST SEPARATE!
What it boils down to is a lot of your church fuckers have thought about a nice big fat cock in your ass and you liked it, and that scares you. Simpletons.
How well put Pushy Spice! : )
Why thank you Reno!
Really? Because I kind of thought once “dumb bitches”, “church fuckers” and “big fat cock” came out it was pretty much the worst put, least educated and least informative, most ridiculous comment on here. Interesting.
after years of being treated like second-class citizens, we tend to get a bit mouthy. The sentiment was a good one though.
Because being a foul-mouthed lout will surely get people to agree with you. You and Perez Hilton have plenty in common.
I do believe she is a bigot, and using my freedom of speech I want to call her just that.
If you remove the word gay (to stop all the “liberals ramming things down our throats” comments), she was basically asked whether she believed that all people were equal and should be afforded the same rights under the law. She believes, for whatever reason she chooses to justify it, that not all people are equal and some should have their legal rights/benefits, the ones that a couple acquire when they marry, denied or restricted by law. She wasn’t asked whether she believed gay marriages were right or wrong, she was asked if she thought that the law should not discriminate betwen gay unions and straight ones and she chose to answer that the law should discriminate because her moral compass dictates so. That, in my eyes that makes her a bigot.
You just have to replace “gay couples” in that question by inter-racial couples or any other minority group that until not so long ago was forbidden by law to marry. The question is not one of religiosity or morals but one of law and equality, and irrespective of my personal views/upbringing/morals/religion I believe the law should apply equally to all of us. Shame on her.
Spot on! Very well said indeed. Whether to marry or not is not the point. It is the point to discriminate based on your beliefs (religious or digust – your choice). I’ve never quite understood how loving someone of the same sex automatically means you have no rights.
Is there ever a time when it is okay to discriminate against any other human?
If I like purple and you like orange does that mean that you are more right than I am? It really is that simple. GOD, whether you have faith or none, doesn’t dictate our government. Or at least he doesn’t on any other issues but one. Gay marriage.
And the funny part (not really) is that this country was founded on freedom of religion. We are free to believe in whatever GOD we choose. But the religious beliefs of these GODS are dictating who marries and who doesn’t. I just don’t get it.
Sorry, but your analysis is off base. Simply because two people have affection for one another does not mean that the state is obligated to give them a right to marry. Marriage exists so that men and women — incomplete in and of themselves — can come together, procreate, raise children and form the bedrock of civil society. Did you ever ask yourselves why, in ancient Greece, even though they openly celebrated and romanticized homosexuality, they never had gay marriage? Because it doesn’t further the fundamental reasons that marriage exists. In a “gay marriage” with two gay men and adopted children, who will be the children’s female role model? How will a young boy know how to relate to women? What societal purpose exactly is furthered by gay marriage? Is it about furthering a societal purpose, or forcing everyone else to affirm your lifestyle choice?
People identifying themselves as gay already have the right to marry – if your desire to have children of your own and raise a family is greater than your desire to have sexual relations with someone of the same gender, you can marry someone of the opposite sex. If you choose not to do so, you can go about your merry way and do whatever it is that pleases you – but it is not marriage.
I always love when people use the “choice” and “procreation” argument.
How about heterosexual people that are sterile? How about women that have trouble conceiving? What about couples that don’t want to have kids? They shouldn’t be married too, right? Let’s not mention all the benefits that come with being married. Let’s not mention those multiple ‘marriages’ all of those people have. They’re all for the purpose of procreation, right? Let’s ask some people. How about the former mayor of NYC? How many marriages is he on now, 3? Oh, and he’s started to brand himself as the “family values” candidate. If you’re so interested in children, perhaps you should volunteer at a local YMCA or donate money to a charity monthly.
Now, about choice, what kind of person chooses to face a life of adversity? What kind of person chooses to be different from everyone else even though it could get you killed? What kind of person chooses to become the topic of debate for people that have no idea what they’re talking about? Leme give you some insight here. It is not all rainbows and butterflies to be gay. It’s not fun being the butt of every joke. It’s not fun hearing people call things ‘so fucking gay’ and it’s not fun that faggot is the pretty much the most insulting thing you can call someone. You have no idea how weird it is to realize you are attracted to other men. You have no idea how much it sucks being raised in a conservative Christian community — even while attending religious private schools — and realizing YOU are one of the people that you are being taught to hate.
Yes, I may be biased, but I don’t see how it’s so widely accepted to have MILLIONS of people hate you openly for how you were born. I just hope I am alive to see things change. It would be nice to finally be accepted for who I am.
Nice try but you don’t have your facts straight. As a psychology student, I can tell you that current research shows that children of homosexual couples develop just as well as children of heterosexual couples (Golombok et al., 2003; Patterson, 1992, 2000). In terms of social stigmatization, a study by Green showed no differences between children from homosexual households and heterosexual households in peer group relationships, popularity, and social adjustments.
Also, I find it hard to believe that female children will have problems finding role models considering what we know about socialization process.
I don’t care what your beliefs are but please stop talking about things that you don’t understand (and can’t back up with evidence). It’s insulting to the scientific community.
You know Eli, you make it seem like everything is perfect in your opposite-sex-marriage world. Like the perfect sunday school family who sings hymns and then afterwards holds hands in a park. that’s not how it is. if say 1 kid from this “perfect” family turns out to be gay, he/she will either spend the rest of their lives resenting themselves and desperately trying to keep this secret from judgemental eyes in fear or punishment, or actually have the courage to come out and be ridiculed and bashed by this “perfect” family and exocommunicated from the church like some leper who can’t be touched. you seem to be so caught up in your own little world, you have this utopian idea in your mind of how the world should be and you want to change all the people you encounter who don’t fit that utopian ideal. but what you’re not realizing is that people are people. everyone wants to be loved. EVERYONE wants to be LOVED. gay or straight, asian or mexican, it’s not about being liberal or conservative, it’s about treating all human beings equally. it’s like the blue/brown eye experiment if you’ve watched it, pinpointing one detail about a person that makes them different and treating them badly for it.
As a straight female without the ability to bear children you are suggesting that I serve no “societal purpose” and also should not be permitted to marry.
It’s 2009 and our society has advanced further than that of our purpose only being to procreate. Are you really that simple minded?
Your alleged arguments are not just an insult to me but to civilization. Also, they serve no “societal purpose” so if purpose is something you so strongly believe in you should keep your ignorant and hypocritical comments to yourself.
Marriage started as a legal contract mainly for property reasons, the romans and the greeks married not for love or procreation but for the advancement of political careers. Procreation as an objective or rather a consequence of marriage only came as a logical way of continuing or affirming the dominance of a group of people over another, so please spare us your very convenient (and bogus) take on history.
I guess if we follow your logic then obviously people who can’t have children should be forced to divorce since they are not fulfilling the main “societal purpose” of the union?
Marriage brings with it very clear legal benefits that should be enjoyed by everyone who decides to share their lives with someone they love or find convenient to stay with. Legislation should not be influenced by people’s prejudices and so your or for that matter, miss california’s views on homosexuality should not be allowed to determine the legal principles in this country.
wow, it wasn’t until this post that i realized that you’re a bigot too!
Spot on, word for word, EB. You’re the reason why I support this site.
have you ever considered that people who oppose gay marriage are not being spiteful or hateful?
um, read above.
Biblically correct is an oxymoron. Magical cloud fairies don’t make the rules people, WE do.
Hey, I’m with Miss California on this. I ONLY live by the Bible.
For example:
I am, of course, against gay marriage.
I never mix fabrics! (Leviticus 19:19)
My friend was raped, so she had to be put to death. Lame, but them’s the rules! I kinda miss her. (Deuteronomy 22:23-27)
I don’t wear earrings because they are idolatrous! (Genesis 35:2-4)
I have my own personal slave. I beat her when she misbehaves. (Proverbs 29:19)
My teenage son never behaved either, so I killed him, as God wants. (Exodus 21:17)
My daughter, however, is still around. She was raped while she was still a virgin, so we forced her to marry her rapist. I think she’s doing well, though she refuses to answer my calls. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
I think handicapped people are inferior. Why are we working to make everything handicapped accessible when they are clearly defiling everything in their midst? (Leviticus 21:17-21)
Oh, and I believe that we should murder women who dress promiscuously. Like, you know, in bikinis. (Ezekiel 23:25-27)
I am quite sure that Miss California feels the same way I do about everything!
hahahah! I love this! Isn’t it great the way people pick and choose what to follow in the bible and what to disregard? Never made all that much sense to me…
Also… Church and State should be separate, just because this bigot believes that gays shouldn’t be allowed to marry in the Church doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have equal rights. Like everyone else! Allowing interracial couples to marry was a HUGE issue, and look how far we’ve come from that. I can’t wait until we look back with the same feelings when gay marriage is legalized everywhere.
ur about to get a verbal smackdown im sure, but before they flock over here, i gotta say cute duckie :)
Leviticus 19:19 Some of the laws in Leviticus applied only to Israel under the Old Covenant-before Jesus died on the cross for our sin and fulfilled God’s perfect plan for our spiritual salvation. Those that applied only to ancient Israel were given to keep the people from participating in the ungodly practices of the surrounding cultures. For example, the mixing of two kinds of materials was based on the fact that pagan priests attempted to practice sorcery by mixing different fabrics into garments.
Deuteronomy 22:23-27 This is based on Jewish law practiced by the teachings of the time. EB’s Jewish so maybe she knows more about this! Once again this was under the Old Covenant, when sinning had deadly consequences for those living during this time. These punishments were placed upon others by the people themselves, not any sop called “holy” documents, church law, ect.
Genesis 34: 2-4 This one confuses me because as I am reading these verses, it in no way says anything is “adulterous”. But God commands Jacob and his family to remove all of their worldly possessions and re commit themselves spiritually to Him.
Proverbs 29:19 Once again, I’m confused. This is directly quoted from my Bible ” A servant cannot be corrected by mere words; though he understands, he will not respond.” Now if I’m correct, I don’t recall anything you claim this verse stated. My question is what Bible are you reading?
Exodus 21:17 Another verse that was the law practiced by people, who obviously took things to the extreme. God wasn’t very happy with those people, so he sent Moses to warn them of their soon coming punishments for you know, killing their children for disrespecting them.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 Yet another verse practiced by the people of this time. These were at one point laws people had to do. And once again, God didn’t command or condone this practice.
Leviticus 21:17-21 You have a problem interpreting things correctly. Those who were handicapped weren’t allowed to become priests. So putting that into a modern scenario, that’s like not letting people with mental disabilities to become a president. It makes sense. Someone who isn’t mentally capable of holding a position of power and where intelligence is needed is necessary to keep things going well. The Bible pities those who were born with defects, it in NO WAY says those born in that condition are inferior. Re-read this verse please.
Ezekiel 23:25-27 Wow, I am would really like to know what kind of Bible you are reading. Maybe some kind of religious rednecks interpretation but certainly not the truth.
I’m pretty sure Miss California doesn’t agree with a thing you’ve written. She was simply stating her opinion. Everyone’s entitled to one, just in case you didn’t know that. People who aren’t for gay marriage aren’t hateful, spiteful or homophobes (well, the sane ones at least). It’s as simple as believing in God’s plan for a perfect marriage. Man. Woman. Simple! If it isn’t obvious enough, I believe in God’s plan for relationships; as for gay marriage, I really don’t care that it’s getting legalized. It doesn’t affect my life! All I’m saying is gay divorce may need to start getting legalized as well. Ouch. The truth sure hurts.
Totally agree with Avery.
“Leviticus 19:19 Some of the laws in Leviticus applied only to Israel under the Old Covenant-before Jesus died”
Who decided this?
This religion stuff makes no sense.
God did. It does, it’s fairly simple. Adam and Eve sinned and screwed the rest of humanity because we could not have a relationship with God, because He is perfect and holy and we are sinners and something perfect cannot be with something sinful. People in this time lived under the Old Covenant, which means people were severely punished for their sin. So God, knowing this was a huge problemo, sent Jesus to die on the cross as the perfect sacrifice so we could have a relationship with God and live eternal life. BTW it has nothing to do with religion, it’s a faith.
Wow this clearly went right over your head.
OP was pointing out that if you’re gonna use the Bible as your justification for opposing gay marriage, you damn well better be sticking to everything else the Bible tells you, rather than PICKING AND CHOOSING.
Thank God I’m an Atheist, I supose.
I completely agree with what OP was saying, unfortunately, he or she does not know the Bible at all, that’s why I wrote my comment in the first place, to correctly explain each verse. I completely agree with Hil’s comment of the fact that the Old Testament is basically history. None of the laws described in it are at all relevant today because of Christ’s sacrifice. But yeah, you’re an atheist so I’m guessing you couldn’t care less!
Bad news mj, God doesn’t exist. Also: neither does Santa.
people forget that the old testament is mainly a history book, not a rule book.
Then why are we supposed to follow the 10 Commandments?
It seems it is a bit of a rule book, or should we disregard that too?
It does seem a bit like picking and choosing.
ten commandments were a basis for the commandments jesus gave in the new testament.
it’s not that, as a christian, one is supposed to disregard the old testament as being just a story, but too many people see everything in it as “yep, that’s exactly how it happened”. for instance, people who literally believe the earth was only created in seven days, because the bible said so, or people who belong to mormon sects that believe it’s ok to have multiple wives because prominent figures in the old testament did.
humans are very good at warping things for their own uses.
Those are all Old Testament verses, and existed as rules which, if broken, could be absolved by means of a sacrifice (like a clean lamb, or a small portion of your crops after harvest). In the New Testament of the Bible, Jesus came in order to save mankind from their sin and offer himself up as a pure and holy “ultimate” sacrifice. Because he lived a life entirely free of sin, his death served as the single act in mankind that was and still is the most selfless thing ever done. Because of this act, all the rules and regulations of the Old Testament, which you have cited, do not fall under the punishment for which they are originally stated, as no sacrifice will need to be made ever again, from then on out thanks to the sacrifice Jesus made.
There are certain things to be understood about the Bible and about Christianity that make all the difference in the world with arguments like this, and the fact that every rule and punishment you listed in the above argument does not take into consideration the entire events of Jesus’ life and death in the New Testament, makes this argument obsolete.
I wouldn’t presume to know all of the rules and regulations behind the Muslim faith, or Hinduism either. But, I could tell you that all those verses you cited are either a part of The Torah or a part of later writings in the Jewish religious texts, and are the legal and religious teachings that the entire Jewish faith is based on. Which, as I understand, at least two of the writers for this site are a part of.
I love this site and read it multiple times a day–but to be called ignorant, hateful, spiteful, and a number of other hurtful names every time my belief system is a target of discussion is just incredibly disheartening.
I’m never one to stand up and preach about Christian beliefs but I feel the need to because they are ABSOLUTELY NOT what this girl claims to have stood up for. Intolerance? Discrimination? Prejudice? If these are things that she has learned in her faith then she has been mislead.
I don’t agree with her but whatever. She was asked a question and answered it honestly. Why people are jumping on her ass for having an opposing opinion is beyond me. It’s like, I think everybody is fucking insane for believing there’s some all powerful magical man in the sky that created us and wants us to worship him and follow a ridiculous book of fairy tales that should help us shape the way we live…. but that’s just my opinion. I couldn’t give a fuck if somebody believes something different… just like people shouldn’t give a fuck if this chick believes the magic man in the sky doesn’t want gays to marry.
Bill Richardson (D) of N.M. is AGAINST gay marriage. As is Obama, but not civil unions, which is reasonable. Mayor Sanders (R) of San Diego FOR gay marriage. Gov. Arnold of CA. (R) FOR gay marriage. Look, you’re going to find a potful of answers here on this super hot topic and that is how it is. It is not so much hate as is a belief. Like it or not, that is how it is.
I dunno…I don’t think people are calling Miss CA a “bitch”, etc. because she’s religious and seemingly intolerant to gay marriage. It’s more about the basic denial of the gay community’s rights based on HER religion. Yes, she’s being “biblically correct” — according to her bible. Her bible also says that women are property. Would she have been opposed to the women’s sufferage movement too?
Is it suddenly not okay to have certain religious beliefs in this country?
good for her sticking with her beliefs instead of saying what Perez wanted to hear. FYI: all you people telling people read the Bible, check out Romans 1:18-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, and 1 Timothy 1:9-11… sry
“but she stands by her hateful answer”
WOW evil beet. you disappoint me. her answer was not hateful in any way, shape or form. it was her opinion, and we all have one. i believe in equal marriage rights for all, just like you do. but the difference between you and me is that i also accept the rights of others to have an opinion. Don’t hate others or call them names just because they don’t agree with you. Grow up.
Hey I have something to say to my gay friends here, marriage sucks. I was married and had to divorce, and yet I’m still with the same man… it just works better this way! I know it highly romanticized in your head but once your married you realize how lame it is! :p
Although I jest… Marriage as an institution has not evolved with the rest of the sensibilities of mankind. I don’t think its my place to say what marriage should be, but I think its only a matter of time and this debate will sway just like so many “major issues” before it that we simply take for granted now.
Hopefully we will see civil union legislation on the federal level soon that will end all this hostility and tension.
Gays will change their tune when they have to pay ALIMONY. LOL.
This is like the abortion issue, it will never be resolved to anyone’s satisfaction.
Is it suddenly not okay to have certain religious beliefs in this country? It is such a shame that she is getting shit on just because she believes that marriage is meant for a man and a woman. Perhaps she answered the question short of eloquently, but she answered honestly, and should not be criticized simply for having certain beliefs. We live in a democratic country which allows for people to vote on the representatives and the laws that govern us, and the idea of voting is that people can choose based on their specific beliefs. It really is sad that she is getting so much hate, especially since she is in no way saying that she hates homosexuals, she is simply saying that she has religious beliefs that dictate an idea of marriage being meant for a man and a woman.
what is “biblically correct” about the miss usa pageant and all it entails? NO consistency/EPIC FAIL.
believe it or not, there are some people who do believe gay people should have the same rights they just don’t want it called “marriage” for all we know she may be for civil unions for same sex couples. all she did was say she believes marriage should be between a man and woman, she didn’t say she didn’t think it should be legal did she? maybe i’m being naive in giving her the benefit of the doubt, but it’s a bit hypocritical to hate all over her for being “hateful”, don’tcha think?
If Miss California is so ‘biblically correct’ perhaps she shouldn’t have those fake tits and walk around in stipper heels while wearing a bikini!! If i’m not mistaken VANITY, is biblically speaking? One of the 7 deadly sins.
America may have been founded on religious freedom, but if I’m not mistaken that was so you could practise any religion you want, or not practice…..Not to push your religious views on others. If she don’t like gay marriage, fine, don’t marry a fucking woman then. But don’t then say to others “you’re not allowed to do that, you know….biblically speaking”.
the 7 deadly sins aren’t from the Bible… but I agree with you about the vanity thing.
Evil Beet is the one who is malicious and therein hateful. Nothing Miss Prejean said or did was hateful. She didn’t bash gays, she stood her ground regarding the specific issue of single sex marriage.
Evil Beet’s malice, insinuating presumption and contempt is what is hateful, repugnantly so given the fact EB is forced to misrepresent what Ms. Prejean said in the first place.
All you goddamn fags can go to HELL! No one wants to read your stupid comments are hear your voices. Get back in your fu*#ing closets.
Does anyone else think that she speaks like she has a speech impediment?
You know what I find amusing about these comments? How certain people who don’t like what Miss Prejean said come on here acting like they are all intellectually superior spouting nonsense they grabbed off google and pointing out others typos to insinuate the rest of us are a bunch of morons because we support her right to express an opinion that we may or may not agree with. It’s completely obnoxious and childish and speaks to deep insecurity. If you’re so brilliant why are you here and not a guest speaker on the Factor or gracing CNN with your brilliance? I’m really suprised Obama didn’t pick his cabinet from here with all the Mensa people we have floating around here all day.
“I’m really suprised Obama didn’t pick his cabinet from here with all the Mensa people we have floating around here all day.”
LOL at this.
I’m pretty sure everyone who comments on here is about three times as a smart as anyone even remotely involved with the making of the o’reily factor.
Beet…
Have YOU ever read the Bible??
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Don’t talk about believing in God if you pick and choose what you want to believe out of the Bible…
I don’t hate homosexuals, I love the sinner, hate the sin. As many of the posts above mine have stated, how come gays/lesbians can have free speech, but heterosexuals can’t express what they believe? Double Standard.
Damn! I haven’t gotten laid in a while, so I was hoping I’d skate through as a passive homosexual.
HAHAHA a hole is a hole in the dark
So the Bible is the origin of the top and bottom?
Cool. BTW, how come no one ever mentions the hellamotherfuckin’ bad ass zombie army from the bible? If you mentioned that you might get more people on board!
you call beet on “believing in god” and then accuse her of picking and choosing from the bible? did you ever stop to consider that she’s not claiming to put her faith in the god of jacob, in the god of the bible, like you do? because that’s the thing here. it is ALL a matter of personal belief. you have chosen god, and as beet clearly said in the post, that (to the best of her understanding, which may or may not be based on actually reading the bible, as you suggested) is very simply a different god than she knows. and she seems pleased with that, so i don’t see what your point is.
*you have chosen your god, not you have chosen god. sorry.
uhhhhhhhhhhhh. I dunno.
On a totally irrevelant note, I think she’s pretty ugly and should just die. Anyone else agrees with moi? 8D HEHEHE.
Okay fine, time to get serious. People have their own views, just deal with it. She’s just voicing her opinion, so I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Keep your shirts on, people.
Who cares what she thinks. I dont want to see another post about her, if ppl keep chatting about her the next thing you know she will have her own reality show, book deal and tv movie. I’d rather we paid attention to the winner MissWhat’sthatstate.
Yeah, totally agree. I didn’t even watch the video b/c there’s no way in hell I’m going to grant her a click.
I just read through these comments, and it’s predictably typical that
the comments from those supporting Miss CA are largely positive and
have little negative language…while the comments from the “tolerant”
left are LACED with hate. And they’re the ones labeling Miss CA as a
“hater”! Unreal.
The liberal playbook has two rules:
1- Demand “tolerance” of all behaviors, actions, regardless of how aberrant they may be…even if they’re illegal (eg: illegal immigration)
2- Be completely INtolerant of anyone who disagrees with ANY aspect of the liberal rule #1. Spewing hate is “tolerated” as a tactic. Ref: Perez Hilton.
Its amazing to me how gays perceive anyone that disagrees with gay marriage as hateful, and a bigot. Perez Hilton is the hater. He called a woman who told the truth a bith and a cunt.
I hope this ignites a fire under those judges that are deciding on Prop 8, and uphold the will of the people.
She’ll become a millionaire, the new Miss USA will be forgotten about. I love Carrie Prejean.
I too hope the courts uphold Proposition 8. So when it’s invalidated by a similar ballot measure they will have it to use as an example of why they are not ‘overturning the will of the people.
Yeh it’s kinda amusing how he throws those words around when he routinely mocks polygamists. I guess he doesn’t believe in marriage equality for them only for himself.
I think he’s just jealous Miss Prejean gets cuter guys than him. All he could get was John Mayer.
Well if we don’t have the guts to hear an answer about someone’s personal belief we shouldn’t dig deep into their personal belief. I believe in gay rights but it’s not like she forced us to be her way.
The problem here is that at one point in time Beet catered to those John and Kate plus 8 genetic abomination fans on this site. Thats why you have all of these idiot fake bible humpers on here denying that all humans deserve the same rights.
You people and your Bible crap…youre like Lindsay Lohan muff diving fr a roof over your head and steady tanning money. You low brow children and shut in, mom jeans wearing dullards only get down with your “lord” when your feeling too punked out and chicken to deal with reality and the big bad world outside of your tiny little lives.
None of this is about you and your bibles or your church. This is about human rights.
Good people with more solid spiritual foundations have been fighting for equal rights for all humans way longer than the majority of you little panty wastes have been sucking on your mommies titties.
Your punk ass grandparents didnt stop us when we wanted minorities in this country to have equal rights even though many of you said your bible allowed you the comfort to not believe in their worth as human beings.
If you arent for freedom for ALL, then you are against us all.
To those of you complaining about cussing AND in the same breath you have the balls to deny the need for all humans to have basic rights that come with a partnership recognized by the country and state FUCK YOU EVIL BITCHES! The world will keep evolving with or with out you.
And no Im not liberal so fucking choke on it. Wimps
eb and perez should go get married cuz you obviously are lovin each others dumbshit blogs. why is she being hateful again? for saying how she feels? for having the balls to say it on camera, and that should have cost her the crown? fuckin dumb. what you think politicaly, environmentaly, emotionaly and whatever else the fuck should be your right to feel it and shouldnt cost anybody a fuckin thing!
If you expect other people to respect your beliefs on gay rights, and gay marriage, do the same. It is quite narrow minded to call anyone who doesnt agree with you someone who is full of hatred, or mock them for their beliefs because they conflict with yours. Sure your the person with the website, and we can all go somewhere else, but it still wont change the fact you are narrow minded.
Liberal / Homosexual = HYPOCRITE
Just because you oppose gay marriage doesn’t mean you are anti-gay.
Oh yes it does.
It is 100% the same thing as saying to a person, “I dont like you because of the way you were born. Well I like “you” but not who you are, so stay over on YOUR side because I view you as less of a human then I am beacuse of what kind of sex you have.”
Its also like saying…
“I love the way you decorate my house, but I dont think you should have the rights as me or benefit from government protection and basic rights as a human when it comes down to being hit hard with a death tax and you cant properly care for your life partner if they should need health care because I’m hung up on how you have sex”
NO ONE IS ASKING FOR A CHUIRCH WEDDING! WHY DONT YOU PEOPLE GET THAT YET? LEAVE YOUR GOD OUT OF IT!
james didn’t say anything about religion.
anybody ever read the Bible in the original ancient Greek? Yea, once everyone does that, we can discuss whether or not homosexuality is wrong according to the Bible. Whether you like it or not, or accept it or not, the Bible has changed over the centuries to cater to the socio-political climate, so there is very little of the original stuff in the translated English versions. That and English is kind of limiting anyway….
The question had no right to be asked, and I really don’t see why they let them talk at all anyway, it just increases the stereotype all around that these women focus on their looks and not their brains. It’s like saying you are going to read the SI swimsuit edition for the articles….
Quite honestly, if I was Perez Hilton, and I posed a question that could potentially result in a direct blow in what I practiced and stood for, and the contestant proceeded to give me an answer that she knew was the exact opposite of what I wanted to hear? What would I do? Have my vote be the most resounding yes, in that judging circle. In front of a nationwide audience, a young woman stood true to her beliefs, under enormous pressure and criticism, regardless of the competition, regardless of the money won and the judges approval and chose to stand her ground. That my friends, takes balls.
And what I love best? The rejection of Carrie in this competition has won her more national attention then the competition could’ve ever offered her and furthermore, greater opportunity to voice her stance, and yet again stand up for herself. Keep it up Carrie Prejean, you are an inspiration to those who appreciate quality character when they see it.
Yeah, but the thing is, her true beliefs suck. Hitler stuck to his guns right to the end; I guess he should have been Miss USA?
Your logic and reasoning skills are tremendous. Obama should have you in the cabinet solving the nation’s problems.
OH hey there, dumbass, some one already used that joke on this page.
I hope youre mom comes out of the closet you fucker.
*your
;)
Your ability to rehash unfunny jokes is tremendous. Letterman should have you as a writer.
following the first ‘opions’ that were recieved i think things like this should be left alone, i am in a civil partnership myself and believe i should have the same rights as anyone else, say, if my ‘religion’ discriminated against black people, i walked around saying that they are wrong would i be treated the same, as ‘miss caroliner’ and be told i can have my freedom of speech, no, i would probably be sent to jail but thats just the way it is, people can be homophobic but not racist, im not a racist person at all, actually i think barak taking over is the best thing right now, im just tryin to get my point across, the world is changing and so must people, but then again, when it somes to a beauty pagent you cant educate pork!
You would be sent to jail for saying that black people are wrong? WHERE DO YOU LIVE?
Last i checked we have freedom of speech here. And notice she didnt say gay people are wrong, she just said she was raised to believe that MARRIAGE is between a man and a woman.
How sad when its 2009 and we are going to have to teach our children that if people wont like your opinion, dont stand up for it and lie.
It is very sad. One is marked as a racist for opposing Obama or a a “hater” for stating a PERSONAL belief. What is next? Stoning fit women for wanting to be a 2 instead of a 20? What, you got a problem with fat chics?!? Huh?!? Whu-what? Please. Pathetic.
wow, the ONLY intelligent response Ive heard on here!!!..
Miss USA pageant is a PAGEANT, not a base for political discussions, questions, propaganda, etc. This was NOT a question that should have been asked in the first place and since it was, even though I might not agree with her, that she was true to herself and her own beliefs is FAR more important than winning a pageant and LYING just so she could wear a crown. I’m appalled by some of your responses, and certainly appalled at the poster.
I whole-heartedly agreed with Carrie’s response. This is America, not 1940’s Germany; if she wants to say she doesn’t agree that the government should encourage one man sticking his wand into another mans’ cornhole, then so be it.
BTW, this is not something that is the equivalent of racism. Being born a certain way is by chance. Being gay is a chose.
Its not a choice. By the way you are evil and i hope you get ass cancer.
or “corn hole cancer”
ignorant piece of shit.
Being born mentally challenged is by chance. Being retarded is a choice. Maybe you should come out of the 1940’s and join the rest of the world in the 21st century…
to state that sexual orientation is a choice is to state that you know the inner workings of another’s psyche better than they know themselves. You can only speak for yourself and what god made you and the choices you have made. As for me, after thousands of hours of self reflection about how I became gay, I am certain of who he made me. How much time have you spent self reflecting about why God made you anything, let alone straight? So. who’s the informed party here? It is clear to me that God found it in his infinite wisdom that he create me as a gay man, his reasons are his own and are not to be questioned by anyone but myself. To say that I made a choice to be gay, you are either calling me insane or a liar, either of which is pretty insulting.
haha sweet.
*choice
The Bible does not make an exception for Homosexuality. It IS a sin and is clearly spelled out in scripture as a sin. However, we are ALL sinners, and one sin is not anymore vile in God’s sight than another. I know gay people who have been able to break away from the bondage of actively gay relationships and are now living surrendered lives to Christ. BTW, there is only one true way to heaven and that is through faith in the acceptance of the shed blood and forgiveness of Christ’s death and resurrection. Don’t get mad at me. God said it. I didn’t, but I do believe it is true.
Blah, just go away already. The bible says wearing shoelaces is a sin.
Congratulations to Carrie for having the guts to stand up and say what she believes. She might have lost the tittle, but she won all of proud people hearts. As for Perez, how can a man that dislikes sex with women, be a judge to a miss pageant?
Anonymous:
Gay rights over Hitler ruthlessly killing thousands are two severely different subjects, both resulting in much different outcomes. Lets stick to the subject at hand, please. Someone who is responsible for creating a genocide should never be looked up to, but thank-you for pointing out the obvious.
Let me ask you this: If you were brought up to accept gay marriage (clearly you were), and the judge adamantly believed marriage should be only between a man and a woman, and asked you directly if gay marriage should be allowed; I’m sure you would’ve scampered away like a little girl, and stated what your judge and audience wanted to hear. After all, that’s what you were expecting Carrie to do, correct? Please,
I strongly advise you work to at least be respectful of other peoples point of view. I’m not saying agree with it, but at least understand that she, just like any other human being, is entitled to her own opinion. I respect that you have an opposing opinion then my own on this subject, but I guess I can only hope that although I may respect you, it’s too much to ask for you to respect me.
I love that ANY Liberal can clearly state their “Opinion” and that is just supposed to be Okay with EVERYONE (or else), and If anyone (heaven forbid) bring up any questions regarding it, they are just “filled with hate”… Now, if anyone on the Right or more conservative side says anything regarding their OPINION, then watch out!!… IM SORRY, but the LIBS DO NOT have a Patent on opinions!!!!…Time to start getting over yourselves QUICKLY.
One Truth:
GREAT comment! :-)
Isn’t this woman just echoing the stated position of democratic Sen. John Kerry when he ran for president in ’04 and the position that President Obama ran on?
ssshhhh …. quiet now ….
Congratulations on making the Homeland Security watch list, you fucking terrorist!
If she wants to win “Miss Sunday School Queen” — that’s fine and I respect her right to be intolerant of others. If, however, she wants to be “Miss USA” and represent Americans, she should probably consider being just a bit more tolerant of ALL Americans — not just the ones who believe as she does. So, she stuck by her guns, chose not to sway from the teachings of “her” religion in “her” country, and came in second place. Good for her. Now she can go stand in the corner with the republican minority and hold her head high…
Hey you! If you didn’t know homosexuality is the minority in this country still! If you don’t want to believe what God said than fine that’s your right but don’t take away the Rights of those who believe!
Well….. My Mom and I have a thing going on outside of our normal Mother/Son relationship. She’s hot and she’s romantic…. My Mom makes me feel like and real man when we have sex…. We’re also best friends AND she’s my Mom to boot……
Some people call it incest….. I call it love!!!! Don’t you “dare” judge me!!!! Who are any of you to judge me. It’s special to us….
Remember our love is no more or less different than the love that anybody else has with one another in a committed relationship………..
Lol, all the comments are hysterical.
Bla, bla, bla. I am religious so I am allowed to be a hateful bigot.
You guessed wrong, morons. You are just a bigot who doesn’t follow the fictional Jesus’ teachings.
Hey, where’d you get that stupid fucking avatar, moron?
I’ve got 10 bucks that says Miss California has eaten pussy before, and we’ll hopefully be hearing about it soon. Shazam!
Okay…
When it comes to marriage- there’s such a thing as the separation of church and state. Religious people and church groups have every right to protest gay marriage in their churches- however the legal civil union of two persons shouldn’t be subject to religious arguments.
How does gay marriage hurt you? This is crazyness!
Jesus never had a girlfriend… ever thought about that?
well he didn’t come down to earth to start a family did he? how would that work anyway? we’d have people living who were descendents of God and therefore more holy than the rest of us and they’d become icons etc. That was one of the points made, don’t have any icons. je whizz!