Authorities have released the transcripts to calls placed to emergency services by workers at the ski resort where actress Natasha Richardson fell and hit her head. The transcripts give a pretty detailed time line of what went on, noting that the resort staff called for an ambulance immediately after she took the spill, at about 1pm, but when medics arrived, there was no one to treat. Ten minutes later, the call was canceled because Richardson reportedly said she “felt fine” and refused treatment.
This is where the timeline gets a little confusing. The article says that two hours later, the resort again called 911 when Richardson began to complain of severe headaches. That would make it roughly 3:00. However, the article goes on to state that Richardson’s “vital signs were normal during the 4 p.m. ambulance ride on March 16.. she didn’t know where she was, what day it was or what had happened to her.”
It took an hour for the ambulance to get there? We also know that she was stabilized at a local hospital, but wasn’t transferred to the closest trauma center until 5:55 (almost two hours later). By the time she arrived at the trauma center at 6:38, her pupils were dilated and she was unresponsive.
I don’t know very much about emergency medical services or what kind of conditions they would have been operating in up on top of the mountain there, and far be it from be to give even the slightest inkling of possible credibility to a Fox News Outlet, but don’t those turnaround times seem a little slow?
I wish she had at least gone with the ambulance the first time. Let this be a lesson to all of us to not be so stubborn, especially when our health is involved.
RIP Natasha
oh, and the times do seem a bit slow, but honestly, I do not know a lot about what “normal” times would be. Perhaps it was difficult to transfer her because of her condition?
Can we stop it with the Natasha Richardson posts? Just let her rest in peace.
in most cases, before both pupils get unresponsive, it starts with just one of them
in most cases, the XRay shows a linear fracture of the temporal bone
so, just get a drill a do a couple burr holes on the side of the dilated pupil and put the patient under blood transfusion for transportation
Unless the local hospital has got no equipment at all???
and I mean the kind of power or hand drill orthopedic surgeons have?
A general surgeon can do it
not as nicely as a brain surgeon does, but it’s possible to save a life if you have the courage to
during those two hours of stabilization, they probably proceeded to mechanical ventilation and mannitol therapy
which was not enough when a meningeal artery is torn
OMG you make brain surgery sound so simple! Did you get that info off Wiki?
Having worked as a nurse for 22 years in Neurosurgery and Emergency/trauma…it isn’t that simple.
Simply put, she was in a somewhat remote area in Quebec. She refused medical attention and paramedics, when they did finally arrive were unable to assess her and were turned away. She then worsened and was transported to a small community hospital (45 min away). There she was assessed and transferred by land (sadly they have no helicopter ambulances) to an appropriate tertiary care hospital in Montreal (2+ hours away). All that would have taken several hours. Had they (Quebec) asked Ontario (less than an hour by air) for help she might have survived!
TIME IS BRAIN!
Anyone with some first aid training knows you can have a headache after a concussion, too. She didn’t have any loss of consciousness. Had it been me, I’d have done the same!
Seriously, even with all the mediacl technology in the world…people die! When it is your time to go, nothing we do will save you!
Can we stop pointing fingers and accept that she died. It is very sad and we can learn from it!
I already stated in other posts it’s sad and happens everywhere
here I just stated what happens usually
epidural hematoma is outside the brain, between the bone and the dura mater
I understand your points but I am a neurosuregeon myself
I don’t wiki
and I would operate on abdomen of patient if I had nothing to lose too, even if I don’t do it on a daily basis
at least I would have tried
oops
neurosurgeon, of course
and another thing
the calls and responses are clearly described
the clinical evolution is not
but I bet it went as I described
and this is just the way it is
an emergency
and has to be treated as one
so sorry she would refuse help in the first place
Ok, Brain Surgeon!
You don’t have to have a fracture of the temporal bone…your words…to get an epidural hematoma. You are right, it is ONE of the linings around the brain. But, not everyone can drill a burrhole! Certainly not some poor average small town doc who has a lack of experience in neurosurgical procedures. Some of them can’t even do an LP! Hello…MALPRACTICE???
Bottom line…she needed rapid air evac to a center that had neurosurical services. She didn’t. Time worked against her. End of story!
Can we move on now?
“in most cases, the XRay shows a linear fracture of the temporal bone
”
quoting my own words
we are always on the move Demoness
always
“in most cases, the XRay shows a linear fracture of the temporal bone
”
quoting my own words
we are always on the move Demoness
always
:)
“in most cases, the XRay shows a linear fracture of the temporal bone
”
quoting my own words
we are always on the move Demoness
always
:)
You mean you got through medical school without ever having to spell correctly?
Wow you totally impressed me, and by that i mean you made me laugh.
I guess you mean what I wrote amused you?
unfortunately it’s a sad case
fortunately it didn’t happen to a loved one
it’s no laughing matter
no way
Oh no im not laughing about the case at all. I was just amused by the fact that you come to a gossip blog to try and “show off” your “medical talent” which obviously must not be appriciated in the real worl.d
With Obamacare, this is the type of treatment Americans can expect to receive. Atlanta has as many CAT scan machines as in all of Canada. Canadians will also tell you about “brain drain”. That is when students study to be a physician in Canada then leave for the US to practice.
OneBigAssMistakeAmerica
What a stupid post.
That’s funny, we Canadians know it as “cash dash”. Ya know, where we study medicine in Canada, move to America for a few years, make obscene amounts of money treating your various power tool mishaps and kids colds. Then move back to Canada and purchase that quiet cottage by the lake with your money. Thank you for making it so easy.
lol.. well said!! :D
I completely agree. If Obama gets his way w/ universal coverage we will soon be receiving treatment on par with that of Canada and the UK (which is NOT a good thing). It is not rocket science to determine why so many pregnant Canadian women come south to the US to get proper medical care…
Yes those were really really long transfer times. She was in the middle of NOWHERE- in a tiny town which did NOT have helicopter transfers. Im guessing that if her husband was there (not suggesting in the least that he is at fault because he wasnt there) he could have paid some private company to transfer her to the states. Im guessing it was a really hard situation if it was just her kids and they don’t speak french.
If she’s on the top of a mountain somewhere….yeah it’ll take an hour to drive down it. Visit Colorado sometime.
A fairly detailed timeline is located on the Canadian Globe & Mail site:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090327.wrichardson0327/BNStory/National/home
Speaking as someone who goes to said ski resort yearly, the highway to get up there is not a freeway by any stretch. It also is located quite a ways north of Montreal yet. That being said, they made great time considering the drive. It’s been said that even if the air lift was available, she wouldn’t have got the priority at any rate, due to her “stable” situation.
Language also shouldn’t have been a factor, as this is a popular tourist ski resort, and the Montreal area is largely bilingual.
Just an unfortunate situation all-round, and one that speculation won’t help. My heart truly goes out to her family at this difficult time.
To be fair, if you’ve ever been to that ski resort you’d know that the roads are vicious. Especially in winter. There’s hills up and down and TONS of curves. I don’t know what length of response time is appropriate; however, I could see it being a bit more difficult under those conditions. Maybe that was a factor? Not too sure. Either way, it’s horrible what happened.
“Paul Brunet, president of the Council for the protection of patients, said the question of whether a medical ambulance would have made a difference was moot.
`If she had worn a helmet and accepted to see a doctor would there be any talk of this need for a helicopter?
`And with all due to respect to the Americans, we don’t need any lessons from them about health care,’ Brunet added. Canada doesn’t `have 50 million people without health care like they do.'”
http://www.vancouversun.com/Health/Socialized+medicine+didn+kill+Natasha+Richardson+says+doctor/1440316/story.html
Oh, burn! That was awesome.
Burned indeed. Thanks but I’ll take universal healthcare any day over no health care!
I think the second quote is really stupid. Why are they blaming her?
Of course she wouldnt have needed it if she had worn a helmet but she did and she was injured. Thats like saying to the family of someone who died in a crash. “It doesnt matter that we didnt get there fast enough because if she was wearing a seat belt there would be no talk of our response times.”
Well actually…it is kind of true!
There was some onus on her part. She refused treatment. Ya, she wasn’t wearing a helmet. Tons of people don’t.
Driving without a seatbelt…same! But who is “saying to the family” that it is her fault?
Do you wear a helmet when you bike? Or skate?
They were invented for a reason!
Hes saying its his fault because she was not wearing a helmet and did not want care at first. YES, part of it was her fault. however, to say that anything that happened after that fact (like not having a hellicopter) is not important is rediculous. Of course she should have been wearing a helmet and should have gotten treatment at first, however she didnt, now its important to look at other things that may be changed in the future to help others in similar situations, like a major ski resort not having access to a hellicopter for emergencies.
And no i dont wear a helmet when i bike, or skate. Yes thats wrong and yes if i fell and injured my head that would be damn well my fault. but does that mean that i dont deserve the most speedy and professional care? No.
i think a lot of it can be blamed on universal health care… maybe? the lack of a trauma center &/or life flight at the hospital she was at.
The biggest problem here seems to be the transport time not the quality of care. I don’t get why a remote mountain ski resort doesn’t have a medical helicopter handy. Furthermore, patients with head trauma should be FORCED to seek care because head trauma patients may not be thinking clearly obviously.
No one is ever forced to seek care. If you refuse care and die because of it, that’s entirely your own fault.
Actually you can take a patient to a hospital against their wishes if they have suffered head trauma and it’s deemed they are not thinking clearly.
Kelly is both doctor and legal expert . . . NOT.
I’ve been to Mont Tremblant several times and I know that the closest hospital isn’t so close because my friend’s brother had to go there when he broke a bone and it took him around 45 minutes, maybe more. So yeah, and I guess if there were bad conditions that’s even worse.
More pics of Joan Van Ark?
The problem here is not the CAT scan or lack thereof. Canada certainly does have CAT-scan machines, and uses them effectively. Time was the main factor in Ms. Richardson’s death (although the EMTs did an amazing job of getting to her as fast as they did while dealing with Tremblant’s roads).
Although I think Canada’s health care system is, for the most part, well run, those of you who have a problem with universal health care in America may want to look at Germany’s version of nationalized health care. They tend to be seen sooner than Americans, and pay nothing, while having the same or better mortality rates.
This ski hill is about an hour drive from my house and the village around it is nothing more than a few restaurants and shops..the hospital is not close at all..so I can understand why it may have taken a while for the second ambulance to arrive (if that was the case). It’s a sad story very tragic – but I wouldn’t go blaming Canadian health care because no offense it’s a thousand times better than what you have in America.
In Ontario Canada, when an ambulance has been dispatched they are required to attend the patient. As of now, this is not the case in Quebec but will likely change after a provincial inquest, because there will probably be one.
And for those who talk about the US having more CAT scans than Canada does: that because the US has a considerably larger population, geniuses. The word is called ‘context.’
Also many US docs give CAT scans unnecessarily because they make big $$$ off it. I was charged $2,600 for one that I didn’t even need. I later found out the doctor who treated me was a financial partner in the radiology center I had it done at. Hmmmm. Obama needs to do something about the profiteering in healthcare.
high 5
Paramedic here.
Arrival times on scene and transport times are dictated by several factors: weather, road availability/conditions, what the crew was doing when the call came in, and how they prioritize a patient. It sounds like the 4pm timestamp was acquired en route; meaning, the paramedics may not have been at the resort at 4, but well on their way to the hospital. The Glasgow Coma Scale dictates that Natasha Richardson would have been a high-priority case if she was not oriented to time, person, place, and/or event leading to injury as described in your post. I don’t know anything about how medics are trained internationally, so whether or not they used the GCS scale is up in the air.
What people don’t realize is that head trauma can go downhill VERY fast, often in a matter of minutes. A person may seem fine one second, then turn your back and they can become unresonsive.
Rather than pointing fingers, this should be used as a learning experience for trauma systems everywhere that the necessary infrastructure to rapid transport trauma victims must be assessed and improved, lest more people die from injuries like this.
it seems paramedics were excellent
there is reference of a 12 GCS score when the patient was taken to the first hospital
what happens next is the issue
during the time she stayed at that hospital, until the medics were summoned to transport her in amazing speed to the place where she could be treated efficiently, but already too late for life saving
the amount of time spent at the first hospital and whatever happened there, is what I wonder about.
they were obviously not prepared to deal with it
and I am not pointing fingers specifically
this is something that can happen to any of us, anywhere.
if it had happened to me, if I was comatose and herniattion of the uncus was impending, I would gladly have a Black & Decker tool brought against my skull
all rusty, oily and everything
it may sound like wartime surgery, but it can save a life
get over yourself please, and hurry.
Sweetie, I wasn’t addressing you. Please take your egotistical ass somewhere else.
I wasnt talking about you, and if you were wise you could see that i replyed to Mambas comment not yours, SWEETIE. Wow, smart people on here, huh?