So many jokes, so little time. I’m going to refrain myself, given that this is actually kind of an important subject. Just insert your own joke every two sentences or so. It’ll make me feel better about passing on all of them.
The U.S. government has long been using heavy metal music as a torture device at overseas camps like Guantanamo Bay. Prisoners are forced to listen to bands like AC/DC, Nine Inch Nails and Pantera on full-blast, twenty hours a day. [This is where you insert a joke.] The tactic was authorized by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez in September 2003 “to create fear, disorient … and prolong capture shock.” [There’s another joke here.] This music is particularly unsettling to prisoners raised in Afghanistan or Iraq, where the pounding heavy metal sounds are rarely heard. The treatment often drives prisoners to madness; they wind up screaming and smashing their heads against walls, unable to endure more.
It’s not just heavy metal: the government has also been using songs from Sesame Street and even the Barney “I Love You” song. [Joke here, guys.]
Now, musicians are taking a stand against this, and insisting the government not use their songs as torture devices.
A campaign being launched Wednesday has brought together groups including Massive Attack and musicians such as Tom Morello, who played with Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave and is now on a solo tour. It will feature minutes of silence during concerts and festivals, said Chloe Davies of the British law group Reprieve, which represents dozens of Guantanamo Bay detainees and is organizing the campaign.
Some musicians, however, say they’re proud that their music is used in interrogations. Those include bassist Stevie Benton, whose group Drowning Pool has performed in Iraq and recorded one of the interrogators’ favorites, “Bodies.”
“People assume we should be offended that somebody in the military thinks our song is annoying enough that played over and over it can psychologically break someone down,” he told Spin magazine. “I take it as an honor to think that perhaps our song could be used to quell another 9/11 attack or something like that.”
What do you guys think???
Is this an acceptable practice?
Obviously NO, but then what torture is?
Completely acceptable!
I’m not sure how I feel about it. I…guess it’s a step up from physical torture, though it seems barbaric to even torture people at all.
On the other hand, terrorism is horrible and barbaric too, and I think it’s legitimate for Americans to try to get answers and informations about terrorist groups. And I suppose they won’t get those answers by asking politely.
No type of torture is every okay and every human being deserves the RIGHT (Yes right, I don’t give a flying fuck if they killed 400 people, our government isn’t going to play the, “but he did it!” card that we did when we were 4 and someone hit us and we hit them back) but it seems that is what our world is coming to, the they hit you and we hit back game. Does anyone understand that terrorists are programed to be kamikazes? They WILL die before they tell you anything, so let them rot in jail instead of almost drowning them and making them listen to bad music. I am all for these bands stepping up and agreeing this isn’t okay and if I was a musician and I found out someone used my music as a torture device I would be horrified. Rant over.
If it works, ROCK ON!
Dude if they’re going to do it, why not have it be something that isn’t physically painful… It’s not like it’s water boarding.
Totally acceptable. I am forced to listen to adult contemporary rock at work…this is totally the same thing. No harm, no foul, just annoying.
I’d give up state secrets if someone put a Shania Twain CD on loop. Or my least favourite song in the entire world, “Tempted” by Squeeze. Fuck I hate that song.
I don’t know whether it’s acceptable or not… but it sure is funny.
hello, they’re terrorists? Did they maim and kill with music? no, they use bombs and guns against mostly nonmilitary targets( please see this as me and you). Well, when it’s me and you, we would have been in the Trade Center towers like my cousin, or my college roommate that didn’t come out of the building. Tom Morello STFU! Go spinal Tap on their asses and crank it to 11.
No, it is not acceptable. We are a nation of dignity, and a nation of laws. Our trump card in the war on terror is that we are better than them. All torture, particularly when it is meant to undermine one’s humanity (which would include leading others to madness) is unacceptable from my government, my country. I do not live in Saudi Arabia, I do not live in North Korea. I live in a place better than that. Until we are comfortable with ourselves as tyrants and bullies, no better than those we oppose, this is transparently wrong.
oh my god.
cant even believe some stuff i read here.
like torture is funny…stuff like that.
torture is horrible. i dont care if its necessary. they torture a lot of innocent ppl to if u guys dont know.
and not to mention the artists, how do u think they feel…to have your work, your art, used to hurt another human being. thats disgusting.
@carol… OMG indeed. wake up.
Oh well Beet Czar, just so you know…a lot of the targets in the Iraq war were non-military as well. But I guess ppl in Iraq doesnt matter as much…or maybe they deserve it cause they hate USA? How do u feel about that? Should your army be tortured too?
Beet Czar Says:
December 10th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
@carol… OMG indeed. wake up.
WELL…u do feel a lot of hate, i understand it was a tragedy…
it really was.
VIOLENCE is always a tragedy.
ek Says:
December 10th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
No, it is not acceptable. We are a nation of dignity, and a nation of laws. Our trump card in the war on terror is that we are better than them. All torture, particularly when it is meant to undermine one’s humanity (which would include leading others to madness) is unacceptable from my government, my country. I do not live in Saudi Arabia, I do not live in North Korea. I live in a place better than that. Until we are comfortable with ourselves as tyrants and bullies, no better than those we oppose, this is transparently wrong.
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soooo true.
I have long used music to torture. When my children are arguing in the back seat about people touching them or being ‘over the line’ down the seat or Looking At Them Funny, I will turn on Tejano salsa music and turn it up loud. It works. Try it.
@carol – I’m fairly certain each and every member of our military is too macho to consider some loud music to be torture. Female soldiers included.
I suppose you think we should just let them sit in their cells with their blankies and their Korans and their three squares a day and just ask them nicely once in a while if they wouldn’t mind telling us which of us they’re planning to mass murder next.
not saying torture isnt necessary. its just that it is horrible.
@carol – I’m fairly certain each and every member of our military is too macho to consider some loud music to be torture. Female soldiers included.
I suppose you think we should just let them sit in their cells with their blankies and their Korans and their three squares a day and just ask them nicely once in a while if they wouldn’t mind telling us which of us they’re planning to mass murder next.
——
oh wow. u r saying your army is strong enough to resist torture and those crazy prisioners they deal with arent? r you kidding me?
i didnt say torture isnt necessary. its just that it is horrible. it just is. it shouldnt make anyone proud.
u know, u talk about violence (as long as it isnt against your ppl) as a completely normal acceptable thing…it never is. its sad we have to use it.
Beet, are you SERIOUSLY asking whether torture, in any form, is acceptable? I don’t believe this.
I think that if a nation wants to even consider claiming to be somewhat civilized, it has to completely renounce such medieval methods as torture.
I suspected the guys from Drowning Pool to be complete idiots. Here’s the proof.
It would be a wonderful world if there was no violence, rape, murder, terrorist attacks, famine, plague, floods, earthquakes, volcanoes, Barry Manilow songs, mutilation of women, genocide and reality television.
But that’s not the real world. Here in the real world, there are people actively plotting and training to Kill Innocent People for NO REASON other than they are freaking nuts. If we are making them uncomfortable by blasting them with NIN, well, too dang bad.
Reading some of this drivel is bringing out my rage disorder and I want to choke someone while listening to Gwar. Sorry, I live in New York, not Pollyanna, bitches! I’m just saying!
further evidence of how hard drowning pool sucks.
awww good for u.
@carol… and what do you mean by your people? the bad ones? the good ones? the innocent? the children? I hope you’re not profiling.
@ Beet Czar – the greatest torture is having to read these bleeding heart posts.
Soooo, let me get this straight Carol. Let’s pretend you were at a military base. This would be you then? “Oh gawd, oh dear, Nine in Nails, oh that is sooo awful. Yeah, go ahead, turn the music on. Umm maybe a little louder, it’s necessary.” WTF?
@ eyes… tru dat
WTF?!
torture is just plain wrong.
it can’t be justified in any way.
Beet Czar Says:
December 10th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
@carol… and what do you mean by your people? the bad ones? the good ones? the innocent? the children? I hope you’re not profiling.
you ppl, i mean, american ppl. nothing bad or mean.
Eyes of Green Says:
December 10th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
@ Beet Czar – the greatest torture is having to read these bleeding heart posts.
I bet. I really think u r misinformed about torture then. what governments made in south america with the US government backing them up. oh torture is a bless.
Indigo Says:
December 10th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Soooo, let me get this straight Carol. Let’s pretend you were at a military base. This would be you then? “Oh gawd, oh dear, Nine in Nails, oh that is sooo awful. Yeah, go ahead, turn the music on. Umm maybe a little louder, it’s necessary.†WTF?
what? r u insane?
oh dear indigo, i dont really know what u meant, but what i mean is that sometimes, to get important information to save innocent ppl, authorities use a terrible thing called torture. i dont like it. but it has saved lifes, its true. but i dont think its good or normal or ok.
@ carol, as per your last comment… Your point is? wtf do you think we’re talking about here… US military is using this to save more innocent lives, not just American, I’m sure… if they found information by extracting information from these killers about something in other parts of the world, they would implement procedures to stop the acts of terror. I’m sorry if using music as a means of torture offends someone and that it could possibly stop some other innocents from being killed. Keep the music playing.
No, honey I am not insane, but you certainly are coming off that way. BTW it is not necessary to cut and paste every-one’s comment when replying. We can figure it out.
@ carol, as per your last comment… Your point is? wtf do you think we’re talking about here… US military is using this to save more innocent lives, not just American, I’m sure… if they found information by extracting information from these killers about something in other parts of the world, they would implement procedures to stop the acts of terror. I’m sorry if using music as a means of torture offends someone and that it could possibly stop some other innocents from being killed. Keep the music playing.
I know what u mean. I am just saying it is not funny, it is not ok, and it shouldnt be acceptable, eventhough this sounds too idealistic. sometimes we feel almost a certain apathy about those terrible things…u know? but they r still terrible. not to mention the innocent ppl who get tortured too. its not just a trivial thing we r talking about.
and if i was a musician, i would definetly hate to see my work being used to hurt ppl. thats all i said. i dont know why my “statement” was so controversial.
Indigo Says:
December 10th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
No, honey I am not insane, but you certainly are coming off that way. BTW it is not necessary to cut and paste every-one’s comment when replying. We can figure it out.
Oh thank u for clearing that up. I still want to do it this way, if u allow me. Sorry if u cant interpretate.
“Sorry if u cant interpretate.” – Ahhhhahahahahhahahhaaa. You are not helping your cause at all!!
whats my cause, indigo?
u really dont know what i meant by the word “necessary”? i just recognized the “use” of torture to help some causes, eventhough i dont agree with that. why did u have to make a pointless “joke” about it?
Perhaps it’s your seemingly haphazard way of wording things. I don’t think anyone on here is/was singing the praises of torture (forgive the pun). But it is a means to an end. If it gets us information we need to save lives, then so be it.
Indigo…what was the problem with the word necessary then, if you seem to agree with that? you just said torture is something bad, but needed.
Sheesh, I give up Carol. It’s like trying to reason with a 5 yr. old.
Indigo Says:
December 10th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Sheesh, I give up Carol. It’s like trying to reason with a 5 yr. old.
—
oh well thats usually the argument given when theres no argument left.
i guess there was never an argument to start with. just that “need to disagree”.
To all of you who are so adamantly against torture, may I ask you this: If the authorities catch a person who planted a time bomb that will kill thousands of innocent people when it goes off, including possibly one of your loved ones, are you against them using whatever means necessary to keep the bomb from going off?
@ senor loco…. oh, but then they would be singing a different tune. It’s always better when they can hide their heads in the sand and make believe bad things and bad people don’t exist… As Jack says in “A Few Good Men”, ‘You can’t handle the truth.’ Or my other favorite… “We follow orders, son. We follow orders or people die. It’s that simple. Are we clear?” Gotta love Jack.
“The tactic was authorized by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez in September 2003 ‘to create fear, disorient … and prolong capture shock.’ … The treatment often drives prisoners to madness; they wind up screaming and smashing their heads against walls, unable to endure more.”
How is this funny? We’re talking about people. Human fucking beings.
wow this is a pretty crazy topic. I really don’t know how I feel either way. It was interesting to read other people’s view points.
The only thing I know for certain is that I would NOT want to be in one of the band’s whose music they are using. Most people consider their music as their art, a piece of their soul– I just think it would be hard to think about something that made me so happy bringing someone else such pain.
I think musicians should have a right to say “no you can’t use my music.” I mean, clearly there are still some bands that are okay with it, so I don’t see why you would NEED to use music from people who don’t support it.
I have to say, I’m opposed to torture in any form. I just think it’s ethically wrong and inhumane.
As an artist, this particular form of torture seems awful to me in a unique way. It’s horrible to think that art – any form of art, even metal – which is generally intended to inspire or explore ideas or make people happy, is used to incite fear or pain. It’s so contradictory to its original purpose. I find it offensive that something as important and meaningful as art is used to torture.
The fact that we imploy torture of any kind, against anyone, just makes me sad.
they saw people’s heads off with dull blades, and we question the use of “music torture”? that’s what’s wrong with this nation. i mean among others.
@ indigo – you tried…you really gave it your best shot there!
Methinks Carol is ESL…
An American that supports torture should be water boarded and then see if your opinion changes. Neo-conservative pricks.
just thought id mention the fact that mental torture brings upon physical pain, sometimes it can be worse then just getting the shit kicked out of you. Also that a lot of the people we feel the need to torture havent been convicted of jack shit, so imagine some random people of a completely different race and culture dragging you thousands of miles away from your home and hurting you both physically and mentally until you kill yourself just to make it stop, for something that you didnt do. Not to mention the fact that torture is ILLEGAL loves just in case you havent figured that little fact out in your little “they just might harm me one day so i’d better harm them first and worse now” worlds. I’ve known people in the war and can outright promise you that we have killed many more innocents then we have terrorists, the main person i know admits that he was told along with his group to kill men,women, and children for the simple purpose of instilling fear so they just might obey a little better.
One of my military buddies told me once he was interrogating and Iraqi insurgent that had lobbed mortars at his men the day before… he and his partner were screaming “WHERE IS MICKY MOUSE MOTHER FUCKER?! WHERE IS MICKEY MOUSE???” anyways the guy pissed himself… is that torture?
When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace – Jimi Hendrix
Here in lies the problem…We are fixated in the wrong things in this world. Don’t look at it as anything other than that – it’s actually NOT that complicated. Torture SHOULD NOT EXIST.
The fact that good music (in the case of NIN and Rage, anyway) is used as torture is just a stupid side note and a sad example of what our government is doing wrong. The bands should not feel guilt though (and CERTAINLY shouldn’t feel honor as the ass clowns in drowing pool do) knowing their music is used in this way, but instead realize that even if their art weren’t being used for this sick device of power, our government would come up with some other tool.
Again: When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace
compared to what these people do to their prisoners, ya know like cut their heads off and put it on the internet, I think making them listen to heavy metal ain’t so bad. I am in the Army and it makes me mad that a lot of people forget that they don’t care about the Geneva Convention and rules for torture. They do awful stuff to American POWs.
I love heavy metal and find this f-ing hilarious lol. (: